Author Topic: Gun Ownership  (Read 9396 times)

DiminishingInsanity

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Gun Ownership
« on: July 30, 2012, 12:17:59 PM »
The recent tragedy in Aurora has got me very strongly considering purchasing a gun. I have never owned one, and I have generally been against gun ownership. I do believe that it changes the way a person thinks when he/she carries one. On the other hand had I been in that theater at the time I would have wanted one. As much as I hate violence I would have tried to shoot the guy to protect myself and the others.

ABC ran a story on the frequency of mass killings in America. The frequency is going up. Since the Virgina Tech shootings in 2007 there have been 52 incidents where 3 or more people have been killed. A total of 221 people have been killed. One man actually opened fire in a Pittsburgh gym because he couldn't get a date. No joke. Basically, our society is becoming more violent every year.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video?id=9020231

At this point I'm still on the fence, but the more I think about it the closer I move towards purchasing a gun. I realize that some here will be strongly against it and that's fine. If you could share your views and give me a reason not to start carrying one I'd appreciate it. My heart tells me to be completely non-violent ah la Gandhi, my head tells me that our society has degenerated to a point where it may be stupid not to carry one. This is kind of my last ditch effort to resist the temptation. Any opinions are welcome.




« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 03:48:37 PM by DiminishingInsanity »
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MyOCDisMild

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2012, 03:27:40 PM »
While I personally don't a firearm and are, quite honestly, a little afraid of them, I completely understand your and anyone's decision to purchase one. It seems as if our everyday activities are becoming more dangerous for us; going to school, to the movies...it's terrifying, more so because it seems one of the only ways that we can protect ourselves is to pick up the sword.

In my city, Louisville, we made national news a month or so ago because of a couple of homicides that were, at their core, senseless, as I tend to view most murders. Apparently there was an incident between two gentlemen that resulted in both of them being gunned down. They each had girlfriends and children, the girlfriends got involved, and one of them made a comment ( something along the lines that one of the men had deserved to be shot ) that his girlfriend took extreme dislike to, so she climbs out of her car, in front of the police, at point blank range, and open fired on the other woman, resulting in the police's response of shooting her as well. In the end, one set of kids were left as orphans while the other set was left with one surviving parent, their mother, who will likely spend the rest of years behind bars.

In recent years I've gotten notices home from the school that they 'locked' the school down at some time during the day because of some random act of violence, and that's not including the notices about the weapons that get confiscated from the kids....and this is in elementary school. Because of this, and other issues, I'm seriously looking into home schooling my children. 

If I wasn't so afraid of guns or had children I would look into owning a gun. It just saddens me that this is the course of action we have to take in order to feel safe in our own communities.

SirTenenbaum

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2012, 04:20:02 PM »
I believe crime rates are lowest where gun ownership rates are highest. That doesn't necessarily mean there is causation between the two, but it at least demonstrates that gun ownership does not cause higher crime rates. Get some training before you purchase a firearm, and go right ahead!

SifuPhil

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2012, 05:00:27 PM »
I believe crime rates are lowest where gun ownership rates are highest. That doesn't necessarily mean there is causation between the two, but it at least demonstrates that gun ownership does not cause higher crime rates. Get some training before you purchase a firearm, and go right ahead!
Totally agree.

I like to think of myself as a person on a spiritual path, but that path doesn't include dying senselessly. My training and my philosophy of life have taught me that while we enjoy peace we prepare for war.

I would say learn all you can about guns and self-defense gunning, take classes, practice a lot and use your head. You've already got the advantage that since you're a spiritual person you probably won't be the one going off on innocents, so you're already ahead of the game karma-wise.

We have a right to live our life, and I think an even more primal right to keep others from taking that life.

Jessi

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2012, 06:09:19 PM »
I believe crime rates are lowest where gun ownership rates are highest. That doesn't necessarily mean there is causation between the two, but it at least demonstrates that gun ownership does not cause higher crime rates. Get some training before you purchase a firearm, and go right ahead!

Agreed.

Just check out Switzerland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Hardison

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2012, 07:35:49 PM »
Agreed.

Just check out Switzerland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Wow! I really didn't know that about Switzerland. I just assumed that they had gun control. Well,  I learned something new today!

Quote
Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place.  The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.

In October 2007, the Swiss Federal Council decided that the distribution of ammunition to soldiers shall stop and that all previously issued ammo shall be returned. By March 2011, more than 99% of the ammo has been received. Only special rapid deployment units and the military police still have ammunition stored at home today.

They have guns, but no ammunition. I'm not sure how much of a determent that is.

Quote
The government sponsors training with rifles and shooting in competitions for interested adolescents, both male and female.

That's very interesting. I really don't think that would work well in the US.  I don't really know where I stand on gun control. I do think that guns are too easily obtained. But if guns are banned, that doesn't really affect most of the criminals. They know where to go to get what they want. There has to be some middle ground.

Quotes are from the wiki link provided by Jess.


DiminishingInsanity

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2012, 07:51:04 PM »
I'm not sure I believe the whole more guns = less crime argument. China has many times more people than we have and much less violent crime, and China forbids it's citizens to carry guns. Whereas Texas is one of the most gun happy states in America and their crime rates are consistently above national average, and they even have the death penalty. Also noteworthy is the fact that the shooter came into that theater wearing full body armor, so basically he was expecting a shootout.

Personally, I believe it has more to do with culture and how people are brought up. I hear a lot of gripes from people on other forums about how the media is turning the shooter into a rock star, but nothing about why we have movies like The Dark Knight to begin with.

In any case I suspect it won't be long now before I start carrying a gun. The ever sensible SifuPhil has made a good argument that I can't seem to find a rebuttal for. I've always believed in self-defense anyway.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 01:07:24 AM by DiminishingInsanity »
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DiminishingInsanity

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2012, 08:03:19 PM »
I guess I just have to get my head around it ...
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DiminishingInsanity

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2012, 08:05:12 PM »
Anyway, I appreciate everybody's comments. Keep them coming. I'd like to hear everybody's view points.
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taskeinc

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2012, 08:39:34 PM »
You live by it, you die by it.. that's not to say that if you purchase a gun you will be wielding the gun at every turn. Like you I have never carried a gun, nor have I ever owned a gun. I've gotten by without one for almost 5 decades, I figure there's no need to start carrying one now.

We all have to go sometime, some day, some how, and if it's because we were shot by an arbitrary gunman, it could very well have been our time to go.

If we lived in a perfect world there would be no guns at all. Not only am I not in favor of guns but I am still wondering why most people don't see a problem when a hunter, with a high-powered rifle, shoots and kills an innocent deer. In some cases even going so far as to mount the deer's head on his wall.

If you ever walk in nature, or on a walking trail, you will often see a family of deer cross your path. You may see two fawns and a couple  of deer. Looks to be a family, two kids, plus mom and dad. A human being can just come along and shoot the deer, for sport mind you, and there's no problem with that. What's wrong with this picture? What is wrong with our society?

The answer is NO, I would not purchase or carry a gun.
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DiminishingInsanity

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2012, 09:43:22 PM »
You live by it, you die by it..

Unfortunately the gunman proved that you do not have to live by it in order to die by it.

that's not to say that if you purchase a gun you will be wielding the gun at every turn. Like you I have never carried a gun, nor have I ever owned a gun. I've gotten by without one for almost 5 decades, I figure there's no need to start carrying one now.

We all have to go sometime, some day, some how, and if it's because we were shot by an arbitrary gunman, it could very well have been our time to go.

I think it's great that you have never carried a gun. The question I'm struggling with is will it bring me peace of mind or rob me of it? Maybe I'd get used to it after awhile. Right now the idea of walking around with a gun is getting my heart rate up just typing this. It can also be said that pulling a gun out in public increases your chances of getting shot. It also increases your chances of going to prison and wrecking your own life.

If we lived in a perfect world there would be no guns at all. Not only am I not in favor of guns but I am still wondering why most people don't see a problem when a hunter, with a high-powered rifle, shoots and kills an innocent deer. In some cases even going so far as to mount the deer's head on his wall.

If you ever walk in nature, or on a walking trail, you will often see a family of deer cross your path. You may see two fawns and a couple  of deer. Looks to be a family, two kids, plus mom and dad. A human being can just come along and shoot the deer, for sport mind you, and there's no problem with that. What's wrong with this picture? What is wrong with our society?

I know witches share a different view of this earth then I do. I respect your view, but personally I see the physical universe as the manifestation of hell. Think about it. Nothing survives here without murdering something else. It's all kill or die, and everything dies in the end. Scientists have discovered that even plants are self aware.

http://blogs.sundaymercury.net/weirdscience/2009/06/bad-news-for-veggies---are-pla.html

http://www.examiner.com/article/scientist-suggests-that-plant-is-self-aware

So that means that even Gandhi was a mass murderer for eating plants. What does that make me when I mow my lawn or pull a weed? I would never shoot a deer like that, but every time I eat meat I'm supporting a system that is far more inhumane to animals than the scenario you described. I guess the only solution is to either go to Heaven or become a Breatharian.

http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/breathe_light/breatharianism.html

At least then the carnage would be limited to the microscopic level. Has anybody had any success with this?


The answer is NO, I would not purchase or carry a gun.

Thanks for your comments. I respect your position.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 09:47:03 PM by DiminishingInsanity »
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taskeinc

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2012, 09:53:45 PM »
@Namaste .. wondering why your post are all larger font and in bold? You're not getting your point across any better that way and I don't think it's fair to the other members of the forum. Maybe it's your forum, I do not know. Even if it is, I believe it's just a tad inconsiderate .. just my thoughts..
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DiminishingInsanity

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2012, 11:00:32 PM »
You can make such adjustments on the posting screen. There's no need to take it the wrong way.

Edit: BTW, this is bold.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 12:54:08 PM by DiminishingInsanity »
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Mogenblue

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2012, 06:23:54 AM »
Christ chose to let Himself be crucified rather then use His Power against anybody else.

I will never want to own a gun. I will never want to kill anybody. Not even in self defense.
I may be able to hurt someone, but I don't want to kill.
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Sandra Piddock

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Re: Gun Ownership
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2012, 09:55:23 AM »
It's academic for me, because we're not allowed to carry guns. However, we have had some headline-grabbing massacres in the UK - Hungerford and Dunblane come immediately to mind. I personally could never carry a gun - I'd be too concerned about the potential for disaster. I'd also worry that, in a critical situation, I'd lose my cool, shoot the wrong person, or provoke more violence.